A real-life case · Turkey, 1997

Kemal Atasoy’s reincarnation case

Kemal Atasoy was a six-year-old boy from southern Turkey who said he had been a rich Armenian from Istanbul named Karakas in another life. In 1997, a psychologist wrote down what he said before knowing whether that man had existed. Then he found a house and neighbors in Istanbul, 850 kilometers away, that fit many of those things.

In almost all of these cases, the researcher arrives when the child’s family and the dead person’s family already know each other. In this one, the researcher wrote down what the child said before he knew whether the man he talked about had existed. Then he went to look for him himself. But the case also has weak points, and another researcher in the same field pointed them out. We tell it step by step and then look at what can be checked. If you only want the evidence, skip straight to what can be checked. Did Kemal remember the life of a man who died in Istanbul fifty years before he was born?

Step 1

Around 1993 · Kemal is about two and a half years old · Told by his parents

A boy from southern Turkey talks about another life in Istanbul

Kemal Atasoy lived in Hatay, in southern Turkey, in a well-off family. He was the only son. His parents were Alevi Muslims, a branch of Islam whose followers believe that some children remember past lives. According to them, they listened to Kemal with curiosity but didn’t take him very seriously.

According to his parents, Kemal said a few things about another life as soon as he started to talk, and most of them from the age of two and a half. Around age three, he talked about a mark on his chest. He said it was the spot of a gunshot from his other life. His parents hadn’t noticed the mark until then.

His family had no friends or relatives in Istanbul, about 850 kilometers away. Neither Kemal nor his mother had ever been there, and they didn’t know any Armenians.

In 1997, a researcher went to see him.

Step 2

April 1997 · Kemal is six years old · From the notes of the psychologist Jürgen Keil

A psychologist writes down what the boy says before looking for anyone

Jürgen Keil, a psychologist at the University of Tasmania who studied these cases in Turkey, went to Kemal’s home with an interpreter who knew his parents. The mother was there for the whole interview, and the father came in halfway through. The interpreter translated and Keil took notes. He recorded nothing, because he believes a recorder distracts children.

According to Keil’s notes, Kemal said that in that other life his surname was Karakas and he was Armenian and Christian. He was rich and lived in Istanbul, in a big three-story house by the water, where boats were moored, with a church behind it. He said he lived there only part of the year, that he always carried a big leather bag, and that his wife and children had Greek names.

He also said he was killed by a gunshot and that his wife had something to do with his death. He said his youngest son died in a rally race. He said he got married in Bodrum, a city on the coast. And he said he was a neighbor of Ayşegül, a famous woman in Istanbul.

The name Ayşegül was the clue that could lead to the house.

Step 3

April to October 1997 · Told by Keil and the psychiatrist Jim Tucker

Keil finds an empty house next to Ayşegül’s in Istanbul

Ayşegül sold works of art in Istanbul. She got into trouble with the law and left Turkey. Her case was in the press, probably before Kemal could talk. According to Keil, any Turk who followed the news could have heard her name, including Kemal’s parents. The parents say that when Kemal named her, he was too young to have heard it from anyone outside. Keil writes that this can’t be ruled out.

In April 1997, Keil found Ayşegül’s house in Çengelköy, a neighborhood of Istanbul by the sea. Next to it stood an empty three-story house that fit what Kemal said. But no one in the area had heard of an Armenian living there, and no Armenians lived in the neighborhood anymore.

In October he went back. An official of the Armenian Church told him they had no record of an Armenian in that house. But a very old neighbor assured him that an Armenian had lived there. He told Keil that the Armenian Church officials were too young to remember.

A year later, Keil found someone who did remember.

Step 4

October 1998 · Told by Keil, from what the historian Toran Togar told him

A local historian remembers an Armenian named Karakas

Toran Togar was a historian of the neighborhood, born in 1924. Keil met him near the house and asked what he remembered about the people who had lived there. He didn’t tell him the information came from a child, only that he was looking for facts for a family.

According to Keil, Togar said that a rich Christian Armenian had lived in that house, the only Armenian in the neighborhood, and that his surname was Karakas. His wife came from a Greek Orthodox family, named Yordan, that didn’t approve of the marriage. They had three children, and it was said that the wife had something to do with his death. Togar also said that the Karakas family worked in leather, that he often carried a big leather bag, and that he lived in that house only in summer.

According to Togar, Karakas died in 1940 or 1941, about fifty years before Kemal was born.

Some things didn’t fit.

Step 5

1998 · Told by Keil and Togar

The wedding in Bodrum and the rally-driver son don’t appear

Kemal had said that in that other life he got married in Bodrum, about 430 kilometers from Istanbul. Togar knew of no connection to Bodrum. He remembered the wedding procession in Istanbul, because the wedding of an Armenian and a Greek woman drew attention.

Kemal had also said that his youngest son died in a rally race, as a driver. But if Togar remembered the dates correctly, Karakas’s children were still children when he died. A child couldn’t have died earlier as a rally driver. And there is no confirmation of the gunshot. No one knows how Karakas died.

There are no papers either. According to Keil and Tucker, the Armenian Church records burned in 1957. Keil checked a newspaper from the time Karakas died, and it doesn’t mention him.

Keil and Tucker published the case in 2005.

Step 6

2005 to 2010 · Told by Keil, Jim Tucker, and Vitor Moura Visoni

The case is published, and another researcher points out its weak points

In 2005, Keil and the psychiatrist Jim Tucker, of the University of Virginia, published the case without giving the boy’s name. Of the things Kemal said, they counted 15 that fit Karakas, 3 that partly fit, and 4 that were unconfirmed or doubtful. Kemal also said the house was in Çengelköy and that his wife’s family was named Yordan. Both are true, but they weren’t in the notes of the first visit. Keil and Tucker acknowledged that the boy could have said them after hearing them from Keil himself.

In 2010, the Brazilian researcher Vitor Moura Visoni published a critical review of the case, in which the boy’s name already appears. He pointed out that the interview wasn’t recorded and that the mother was present. The interpreter knew the family. And the person who checked the facts was Keil himself, who already knew what the boy said. He suggested recording the interviews and showing the boy photos of several people and houses, to see whether he would recognize Karakas’s. Tucker and Keil answered him that same year.

The original question remains. Did Kemal remember Karakas’s life?

What does the evidence say?

What can be checked

We ask every case the same five questions. They help us find out whether what the child said was written down before anyone knew who the person he talked about was, and whether it can be checked with evidence. Here we ask them about what Kemal said about Karakas.

2.5 of 5

Yes
Unconfirmed
No data

Was what Kemal Atasoy said written down before Karakas’s house was found?The psychologist Jürgen Keil wrote it down in April 1997, before looking for anyone, and published it in 2005. But only he had those notes, and he was also the one who checked the facts. No one outside saw them before the facts were checked.
Is it known when Keil wrote down what Kemal Atasoy said?According to Keil, in April 1997. The date comes from his own publication, and no one outside can confirm it.
Are there documents on the life and death of Karakas?There are only witnesses. A local historian and a neighbor remembered him, more than fifty years later. According to Keil and Tucker, the Armenian Church records burned in 1957. All that can be seen today is the house, with a church behind it, as the boy said.
Does anyone outside confirm what Kemal Atasoy said about Karakas?Some of it. The historian Toran Togar, without knowing the facts came from a child, confirmed most of the 15 things that fit Karakas. But the facts were checked by Keil himself, who already knew what Kemal said, and we don’t know who else he spoke to.
Can it be ruled out that Kemal Atasoy heard about Karakas?For the facts that set Karakas apart (the surname, that he was Armenian, rich, and Christian, the house by the water), no one has found how the boy could have learned them. But the name Ayşegül, the famous neighbor, was in the press. And the boy could have said the neighborhood and the surname of the wife’s family after hearing them from Keil. The interview wasn’t recorded, and the mother was present.

Why we ask each question

When did each thing happen?

This is what happened and what was written, from oldest to newest:

1940 or 1941. Karakas dies in Istanbul, according to the historian Toran Togar, from memory.
Around 1991. Kemal is born in Hatay, in southern Turkey.
April 1997. Keil writes down what the boy says and finds the empty house next to Ayşegül’s.
October 1997. The Armenian Church has no records. An older neighbor remembers an Armenian in the house.
October 1998. Togar remembers Karakas without knowing there was a child.
2005. Keil and Tucker publish the case.
2010. Visoni’s critical review and Tucker and Keil’s reply.

What is hard to explain

Keil wrote down what the boy said before he knew whether the man he talked about had existed. His notes make it possible to compare what he wrote down with what he found later. But only he had those notes, and he published them in 2005. So no one outside can check that they didn’t change.
The details that set Karakas apart from any other neighbor fit: the surname Karakas, that he was Armenian and Christian, that he was rich, that he lived in a three-story house by the water with a church behind it, that he carried a big leather bag, and that he lived there only part of the year. Apart from the house next to Ayşegül’s, no one has found how the boy could have learned these things.
The historian who confirmed most of them didn’t know the information came from a child.
Kemal’s family lived 850 kilometers away and had no connection to Istanbul or to any Armenian.
Kemal said he was called Fistik. According to Keil, Armenians use that word to say someone is a good person, and Turks who aren’t Armenian don’t know it. No one could confirm that Karakas was called that.

What remains unresolved

There is no document of Karakas’s life or death. Everything known about him comes from the historian and a neighbor, from memory, more than fifty years later.
The interview wasn’t recorded, the mother was present, and the interpreter knew the family.
The facts were checked by Keil himself, who already knew what the boy said. We don’t know who else he spoke to.
The name Ayşegül, the clue that led to the house, was in the press, and the boy could have heard it.
Two hits, the neighborhood and the surname of the wife’s family, the boy could have said after hearing them from Keil.
The wedding in Bodrum, the rally-driver son, and the death by gunshot fail or couldn’t be checked.
The boy said the mark on his chest was from a gunshot. His parents hadn’t noticed it until he talked about it, and when Keil met him it could no longer be seen. No one has been able to see the mark and compare it with a wound.
That the boy could have heard some things doesn’t prove he did. With these data, it can’t be shown that Kemal remembered Karakas’s life. Nor can it be shown that he got it from what he heard.

Frequently asked questions

Who is Kemal Atasoy?

Kemal Atasoy was born around 1991 in Hatay, in southern Turkey. As a young child, he said that in another life he had been a rich Armenian from Istanbul named Karakas. The psychologist Jürgen Keil studied the case in 1997 and published it with Jim Tucker in 2005.

Who was Karakas, the man Kemal Atasoy said he had been?

According to the historian Toran Togar, Karakas was a rich Christian Armenian who spent his summers in a house in Çengelköy, a neighborhood of Istanbul. He married a woman from a Greek Orthodox family and died in 1940 or 1941. No document of his life is known.

Has the Kemal Atasoy case been proven?

No. What the boy said was written down before anyone was looked for, and many things fit what a historian remembered. But there are no documents on Karakas, and the interview wasn’t recorded. Also, the facts were checked by Keil himself, who already knew what the boy said. Here we explain what can be checked.

Where this story comes from

The studies and the debate

H. H. Jürgen Keil and Jim B. Tucker (2005), “Children Who Claim to Remember Previous Lives: Cases with Written Records Made before the Previous Personality Was Identified,” Journal of Scientific Exploration, 19(1)
Vitor Moura Visoni (2010), “How To Improve the Study and Documentation of Cases of the Reincarnation Type? A Reappraisal of the Case of Kemal Atasoy,” Journal of Scientific Exploration, 24(1)
Jim B. Tucker and H. H. Jürgen Keil (2010), reply to Visoni, Journal of Scientific Exploration

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